美国大选第一场辩论.doc

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1、LEHRER: Good evening from the Ford Center for the Performing Arts at the University of Mississippi in Oxford. Im Jim Lehrer of the NewsHour on PBS, and I welcome you to the first of the 2008 presidential debates between the Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, and the Democratic nomin

2、ee, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois.主持人：晚上好，这里是牛津密西西比大学的表演艺术中心。我是来自公共广播公司新闻时间的吉姆.拉勒尔。我欢迎你们来到2008年首场总统竞选辩论。两位总统候选人是来自亚利桑那州的共和党提名人-议员约翰.麦凯恩，和来自伊利诺斯州的民主党提名人-议员贝拉克.奥巴马。(注：牛津，密西西比南部一城市，位于田纳西州孟斐斯东南偏南。是密西西比大学的所在地（老密西），建于1844年，它是威廉姆福克纳的家乡。人口9,882)The Commission on Presidential Debates is the sponsor of thi

3、s event and the three other presidential and vice presidential debates coming in October.总统竞选辩论委员会是这次辩论以及即将在10月份的另外三次总统竞选辩论和副总统竞选辩论的主办者。Tonights will primarily be about foreign policy and national security, which, by definition, includes the global financial crisis. It will be divided roughly into n

4、ine-minute segments.今晚的话题将主要围绕外交政策和国家安全。其中，国家安全包括了这次全球金融危机。我们将大概以9分钟为一段（辩论）。Direct exchanges between the candidates and moderator follow-ups are permitted after each candidate has two minutes to answer the lead question in an order determined by a coin toss.我们将用掷硬币的办法来决定谁先回答引导问题。在两位候选人分别回答完后，可以进行直接交

5、流。主持人也可以进一步追问。The specific subjects and questions were chosen by me. They have not been shared or cleared with anyone.具体的主题和问题都由我决定。它们从未被（我）向任何人披露或解释。The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent, no cheers, no applause, no noise of any kind, except right now, as we welcome Senators Ob

6、ama and McCain.大厅中的观众都已经承诺保持沉默，即不欢呼，不鼓掌，不发出任何形式的噪音。除了现在-让我们欢迎议员奥巴马和麦凯恩。Let me begin with something General Eisenhower said in his 1952 presidential campaign. Quote, We must achieve both security and solvency. In fact, the foundation of military strength is economic strength, end quote.让我以艾森豪威尔将军在195

7、2年总统竞选时说过的一句话开始：我们必须获得安全和财务偿还能力。事实上，军事实力的基础就是经济实力。With that in mind, the first lead question.在脑中记住这个，让我们开始第一个引导问题。Gentlemen, at this very moment tonight, where do you stand on the financial recovery plan?先生们，在今晚这个特别的时刻，你们在金融拯救计划中站在哪里？First response to you, Senator Obama. You have two minutes.第一个回答问题

8、的是你，议员奥巴马。你有两分钟时间。OBAMA: Well, thank you very much, Jim, and thanks to the commission and the University of Mississippi, Ole Miss, for hosting us tonight. I cant think of a more important time for us to talk about the future of the country.奥巴马：好的，非常感谢你，吉姆，也感谢（总统竞选辩论）委员会，感谢密西西比大学今晚容纳我们。我无法想象我们还有比今晚讨论

9、这个国家的未来的更重要的时刻了。You know, we are at a defining moment in our history. Our nation is involved in two wars, and we are going through the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.你们知道，我们现在正处于我们历史上的一个决定性时刻。我们的民族被涉入两场战争（注：伊拉克战争和阿富汗战争），而我们正在经历自经济大萧条（注：1929年）以来最糟糕的金融危机。And although weve heard a lo

10、t about Wall Street, those of you on Main Street I think have been struggling for a while, and you recognize that this could have an impact on all sectors of the economy.尽管我们听说了相当多关于华尔街的事情，但你们那些在城镇主街上的人们（注：这里指美国城镇和乡村的典型居民）已经在（艰难地）努力了一段时间。你们都知道这（金融危机）也许会影响到经济的方方面面。And youre wondering, hows it going t

11、o affect me? Hows it going to affect my job? Hows it going to affect my house? Hows it going to affect my retirement savings or my ability to send my children to college?你们想要知道，它（金融危机）如何影响到我？如何影响到我的工作？如何影响到我的住宅？如何影响到我的退休金储蓄或者是送我孩子上大学的能力？So we have to move swiftly, and we have to move wisely. And Ive

12、 put forward a series of proposals that make sure that we protect taxpayers as we engage in this important rescue effort.所以我们必须得即刻就行动了，而且我们得要明智地行动。我已经提出一系列的建议，以确保当我们从事这项重要的（金融）拯救行动时，纳税人（的权益）得到保护。Number one, weve got to make sure that weve got oversight over this whole process; $700 billion, potentia

13、lly, is a lot of money.首先，我们必须确保整个过程有仔细的监督。可能（被国会通过）的7000亿美元是一笔相当大的数额。Number two, weve got to make sure that taxpayers, when they are putting their money at risk, have the possibility of getting that money back and gains, if the market - and when the market returns.第二，我们必须确保纳税人现在冒着风险投入的钱有可能拿回来并增加，只要

14、市场-且当市场回复（正常）时。Number three, weve got to make sure that none of that money is going to pad CEO bank accounts or to promote golden parachutes.第三，我们必须确保（这些钱）一分钱也不能变成CEO的银行账户或者成为黄金保护伞（注：企业的高级管理层或离任的政府官员在失去他们原来的工作后，在经济上给予其丰厚保障的安排）。And, number four, weve got to make sure that were helping homeowners, bec

15、ause the root problem here has to do with the foreclosures that are taking place all across the country.第四，我们必须确保我们正在帮助住宅所有者，因为问题的根源与在这个国家到处都在发生的无力偿付房贷有关。Now, we also have to recognize that this is a final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies promoted by George Bush, supported by Senat

16、or McCain, a theory that basically says that we can shred regulations and consumer protections and give more and more to the most, and somehow prosperity will trickle down.现在，我们也必须承认这（金融危机）就是对议员麦凯恩所支持的乔治.布什这八年来失败的经济政策的最终裁决。（他们的）一个理论主要宣称的是我们可以撕碎（市场）管理和消费者保护，只要给予越来越多的（自由）直到极致，然后繁荣昌盛就会从天上掉下来。It hasnt w

17、orked. And I think that the fundamentals of the economy have to be measured by whether or not the middle class is getting a fair shake. Thats why Im running for president, and thats what I hope were going to be talking about tonight.（他们的）理论根本没有起过作用。而我认为经济的基础应该以中产阶级是否能进行公平交易作为衡量标准。这就是为什么我在竞选总统，这也是我所希

18、望今晚我们将所讨论的。LEHRER: Senator McCain, two minutes.主持人：麦凯恩议员，两分钟。MCCAIN: Well, thank you, Jim. And thanks to everybody.麦凯恩：好的，谢谢你，吉姆。谢谢所有人。And I do have a sad note tonight. Senator Kennedy is in the hospital. Hes a dear and beloved friend to all of us. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the lion of the

19、Senate.今晚我还有一个令人遗憾的消息：肯尼迪议员住院了。他是我们最亲爱的一个朋友。让我们向议会的雄狮表达挂念和祈祷。I also want to thank the University of Mississippi for hosting us tonight.我也要感谢今晚容纳我们的密西西比大学。And, Jim, I - Ive been not feeling too great about a lot of things lately. So have a lot of Americans who are facing challenges. But Im feeling a

20、little better tonight, and Ill tell you why.而吉姆，我-我近来一直对很多事情感到不满。许多面临困难的美国人们也和我一样。然而今晚我感觉稍微好些了，我会告诉你为什么。Because as were here tonight in this debate, we are seeing, for the first time in a long time, Republicans and Democrats together, sitting down, trying to work out a solution to this fiscal crisis

21、 that were in.这是因为我们在今晚这场辩论上，我们看到，这是相当长一段时间以来第一次共和党人和民主党人坐下来，尝试作出一个我们所面临的金融危机的解决方案。（注：我认为麦凯恩此言，意在抨击民主党人的不合作。当然，这个不合作是由他所定义的。）And have no doubt about the magnitude of this crisis. And were not talking about failure of institutions on Wall Street. Were talking about failures on Main Street, and people

22、 who will lose their jobs, and their credits, and their homes, if we dont fix the greatest fiscal crisis, probably in - certainly in our time, and Ive been around a little while.我们毫不怀疑这次危机的危害性。我们现在不是在讨论华尔街那些机构的破产，我们是在讨论城镇主街上（那些人）的破产。如果我们不解决掉这次重大的财政危机，也许-不，毫无疑问地，在我们的有生之年，人们将失去他们的工作，他们的银行存款和他们的家。（笑）我已

23、经伴随（金融危机）一段时间了。But the point is - the point is, we have finally seen Republicans and Democrats sitting down and negotiating together and coming up with a package.但重点是-重点是，我们终于看到了，共和党人和民主党人坐下来一起磋商并将提出一系列方案（注：由于找不到中文对应于package的这个意思，只好用一系列方案来代替了）。This package has transparency in it. It has to have acco

24、untability and oversight. It has to have options for loans to failing businesses, rather than the government taking over those loans. We have to - it has to have a package with a number of other essential elements to it.这些方案应该有透明性。它们应该可以落实责任和监管。它们应该包括转让衰退中的生意的债权，而不是让政府直接接管这些债权。我们必须-不，这些方案还应当包括许多其他的必

25、需元素。And, yes, I went back to Washington, and I met with my Republicans in the House of Representatives. And they werent part of the negotiations, and I understand that. And it was the House Republicans that decided that they would be part of the solution to this problem.还有，我回了一趟华盛顿，并会见了众议院的共和党议员们。他们

26、并没有参与磋商，我理解。是共和党议会决定，他们也将是解决这次（金融危机）问题的一部分。But I want to emphasize one point to all Americans tonight. This isnt the beginning of the end of this crisis. This is the end of the beginning, if we come out with a package that will keep these institutions stable.但今晚我想对所有的美国人强调一点。现在不是金融危机尾声的序幕。即使我们拿出一系列解

27、决方案使得那些（金融）机构稳定，现在也只是金融危机序幕的尾声。And weve got a lot of work to do. And weve got to create jobs. And one of the areas, of course, is to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.我们还有很多事情要做。我们得创造就业岗位。而创造就业岗位中一件（要做的）事情就是消除我们对外国石油的依赖。（注：个人以为麦凯恩在最后几句话里渲染金融危机的严重性，然后稍微透露一点宏图和前景，企图加强美国人对他的依赖感。很古老的招数，但政客们都在用。LEH

28、RER: All right, lets go back to my question. How do you all stand on the recovery plan? And talk to each other about it. Weve got five minutes. We can negotiate a deal right here.主持人：好的，让我们回到我的问题。你们两位在经济救援计划中站在哪边？直接告诉对方。我们还有5分钟。我们现在就可以在这里商讨出一个结果。But, I mean, are you - do you favor this plan, Senator

29、 Obama, and you, Senator McCain? Do you - are you in favor of this plan?我（先前的）意思是，你们支持这个（经济救援）计划吗？奥巴马议员，还有你，麦凯恩议员？你支持这个计划吗？OBAMA: We havent seen the language yet. And I do think that theres constructive work being done out there. So, for the viewers who are watching, I am optimistic about the capaci

30、ty of us to come together with a plan.奥巴马：我们还没有看到这个计划。我认为在（国会）正在进行一项建设性的工作。所以，我想对观众们说，我对我们一起提出一项计划的能力表示乐观。（注：奥巴马这里回避了主持人的问题。他还是没有说他究竟是支持还是不支持。他的回答是一个non-answer，我们称为打太极、不表态。）The question, I think, that we have to ask ourselves is, how did we get into this situation in the first place?问题是，我在想，我们应该问问我们

31、自己的是，我们是如何首次进入这种状况的？Two years ago, I warned that, because of the subprime lending mess, because of the lax regulation, that we were potentially going to have a problem and tried to stop some of the abuses in mortgages that were taking place at the time.两年前，我就警告过，由于次级贷款的混乱，由于松懈的管理，我们可能正在走向潜伏的问题。我还试图阻

32、止一些当时抵押的滥用。Last year, I wrote to the secretary of the Treasury to make sure that he understood the magnitude of this problem and to call on him to bring all the stakeholders together to try to deal with it.去年，我写信给财政部长，以确信他意识到这个问题的严重性。我呼吁他召集投资人设法解决这个问题。So - so the question, I think, that weve got to

33、ask ourselves is, yes, weve got to solve this problem short term. And we are going to have to intervene; theres no doubt about that.所以，这个我们询问自己的问题，我认为，我们应该在短期内解决金融问题。我们需要干涉了，不容怀疑。But were also going to have to look at, how is it that we shredded so many regulations? We did not set up a 21st-century

34、regulatory framework to deal with these problems. And that in part has to do with an economic philosophy that says that regulation is always bad.但我们也需要看看，是什么让我们撕裂了那么多的（金融）管理？我们没有设立一个21世纪的管理框架来处理这些问题。而这（金融危机）部分地与一种经济理念有关。这种经济理念说（金融）管理总是坏的。（注：奥巴马不但回避了问题，而且开始了强烈地对布什政府，以及支持布什政府的麦凯恩议员的抨击，认为他们的观念有问题。）LEHR

35、ER: Are you going to vote for the plan, Senator McCain?主持人：你会支持（金融拯救）计划吗，麦凯恩议员？MCCAIN: I - I hope so. And I.麦凯恩：我-我希望是，而且我.LEHRER: As a United States senator.主持人：作为一位美国的议员.MCCAIN: Sure.麦凯恩：当然。LEHRER: . youre going to vote for the plan?主持人：.你是说你会投票支持这个计划？MCCAIN: Sure. But - but let me - let me point

36、out, I also warned about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and warned about corporate greed and excess, and CEO pay, and all that. A lot of us saw this train wreck coming.麦凯恩：当然。但是-请让我-让我指出来，我同样也警告过了联邦抵押协会和联邦房贷抵押机构，警告过了（金融）企业的贪婪和无度，还有CEO的（高）薪水，所有这些。我们很多人都看到了这火车即将来临的失事。（注：Fannie Mae = Federal National Mortg

37、age Association, Freddie Mac = Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation)But theres also the issue of responsibility. Youve mentioned President Dwight David Eisenhower. President Eisenhower, on the night before the Normandy invasion, went into his room, and he wrote out two letters.但这里同样要考虑责任的问题。你（主持人）

38、提到了总统德怀特.大卫.艾森豪威尔。艾森豪威尔总统在进攻诺曼底的前夜，走进他的房间，写了两封信。One of them was a letter congratulating the great members of the military and allies that had conducted and succeeded in the greatest invasion in history, still to this day, and forever.其中一封信是庆祝部队和盟军中的杰出成员成功地完成了历史上最伟大的一次进攻，到现在，直到永远。And he wrote out ano

39、ther letter, and that was a letter of resignation from the United States Army for the failure of the landings at Normandy.他还写了另一封信。那是一封向美国军方的辞职信。辞职的理由是诺曼底登陆的失败。Somehow weve lost that accountability. Ive been heavily criticized because I called for the resignation of the chairman of the Securities an

40、d Exchange Commission. Weve got to start also holding people accountable, and weve got to reward people who succeed.不知何故，我们的责任没有落实。我一直饱受批评，因为我要求证券交易委员会的主席辞职。我们得让人们（为自己的工作）负责，并奖励那些（工作上）成功的人们。But somehow in Washington today - and Im afraid on Wall Street - greed is rewarded, excess is rewarded, and co

41、rruption - or certainly failure to carry out our responsibility is rewarded.然而，在今天的华盛顿-我恐怕华尔街也是，不知为何，贪婪得到奖励，无度得到奖励，而腐败，或者无疑地说失职得到奖励。As president of the United States, people are going to be held accountable in my administration. And I promise you that that will happen.（如果）我是美国总统，在我的管理下，人们将（为自己的工作）负责

42、。我向你们保证那将实现。LEHRER: Do you have something directly to say, Senator Obama, to Senator McCain about what he just said?主持人：你有没有一些对麦凯恩议员刚才所说的话直接要说的，奥巴马议员？OBAMA: Well, I think Senator McCains absolutely right that we need more responsibility, but we need it not just when theres a crisis. I mean, weve had

43、 years in which the reigning economic ideology has been whats good for Wall Street, but not whats good for Main Street.奥巴马：嗯，我认为我们确实需要更多的责任（感），麦凯恩议员（在这点上）完全正确，但我们不应只在危机出现的时候才需要它（注：奥巴马此言，已经在影射麦凯恩及执政的共和党人在之前的不负责任，导致了现在的这场金融危机）。我指的是，在过去的数年时间里，占统治地位的经济思想总是考虑什么对华尔街有利，而不是什么对城镇大街（上的人们）有利。And there are folk

44、s out there whove been struggling before this crisis took place. And thats why its so important, as we solve this short-term problem, that we look at some of the underlying issues that have led to wages and incomes for ordinary Americans to go down, the - a health care system that is broken, energy

45、policies that are not working, because, you know, 10 days ago, John said that the fundamentals of the economy are sound.而且，在（金融）危机发生之前，就有那么一些人在（辛苦地）挣扎了。这也是为什么我们在解决这个短期（金融）问题的时候，看看一些深层次的问题是如此重要。这些问题让普通美国人的工资和收入下降，让医疗系统破碎，让能源政策失效。因为.你知道，10天前，约翰（麦凯恩）还在说经济的根本还是健康的。（注：奥巴马在这句话的最后提到因为.时，停顿了一下，他其实真正想说的是就是像麦

46、凯恩这样的共和党人导致了现在的金融问题，但他需要仔细斟酌措辞，不能说得太过，以免被对手抓住把柄。麦凯恩其实也有苦衷，10天前他还没有意识到金融危机是如此迅速地展现在了所有人面前，他还以为那些华尔街的投资银行可以撑一段时间。也因为他还需要支撑住他背后的共和党，需要修饰共和党的执政能力。这使得他不得不硬着头皮说经济根本还是健康的。不料到了今天辩论的时候，几大投资银行相继破产或转行，他所说过的话也就成了奥巴马所攻击的把柄。这其实和某些人说照片是真的有异曲同工之妙。下面就看麦凯恩如何拆招了。）LEHRER: Say it directly to him.主持人：直接向他（麦凯恩）说。OBAMA: I

47、do not think that they are.奥巴马：我不认为经济的根本是健康的。OBAMA: Well, the - John, 10 days ago, you said that thefundamentals of the economy are sound. And.奥巴马：好的，约翰，10天前，你还在说经济的根本还是健康的，而.MCCAIN: Are you afraid I couldnt hear him?麦凯恩：（笑对主持人）你担心我听不到他说话吗？LEHRER: Im just determined to get you all to talk to eachoth

48、er. Im going to try.主持人：我只是想要让你们俩互相交流。我想试试（笑）。OBAMA: The - and I just fundamentally disagree. And unless we are holding ourselves accountable day in, day out, not just when theres a crisis for folks who have power and influence and can hire lobbyists, but for the nurse, the teacher, the police officer, who, frankly, at the end of each month, theyve got a little financial crisis going on.奥巴马：而我根本就不同意这点。除非我们不论什么时候都让我们（对我们的工作）负责，而不是在出现危机的时候。（这危机只是）让某些有权力和影响力的人可以雇佣说客（而已），而坦白地说，对于